Special! The Wedding Chaplain

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Welcome to the Enjoy More 30s Family Finance

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podcast. The only podcast dedicated to making life more

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enjoyable for young families by hitting on the financial topics

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that tend to weigh on us, stress us out, and distract our focus

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from simply enjoying life.

Joseph Okaly: 00:00:16

Hello and welcome to the Enjoy More 30s Family

Joseph Okaly: 00:00:19

Finance podcast. We have a really cool episode for you

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today as we transition between seasons. And this is actually a

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recording of a guest spot that I did on The Wedding Chaplain

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podcast with David Anderson. This is a really, really cool

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episode as nobody really thinks about finances going all the way

Joseph Okaly: 00:00:37

back to the engagement phase. But this is where you have the

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opportunity to really set and align the goals that you may

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have with the person that you want to spend the rest of your

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life with. So check it out, as well as if you know anybody who

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is engaged, anybody's getting married. The Wedding Chaplain

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podcast is a really really unique offering out there. So

Joseph Okaly: 00:00:55

you can check that out as well with David Anderson. Hope you

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enjoy and I'll talk to you soon.

David Anderson: 00:01:00

Well, I am so excited today to have a

David Anderson: 00:01:05

wonderful guest on the wedding Chaplain podcast. His name is

David Anderson: 00:01:09

Joe Okaly. And, Joe, thank you so much for being with us today.

Joseph Okaly: 00:01:15

Yeah, absolutely. David, as we kind of shared with

Joseph Okaly: 00:01:18

you beforehand, before we got recording here. I'm really,

Joseph Okaly: 00:01:20

really excited to talk to you today about what you've kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:01:23

touched on. So yeah, thank you very much for having me.

David Anderson: 00:01:26

You're very welcome. Joe has his own

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podcast. And you may be actually listening to this on his

David Anderson: 00:01:32

platform, he has the Enjoy More 30s Family Finance podcast. So

David Anderson: 00:01:38

whether you're listening to this on The Wedding Chaplain podcast

David Anderson: 00:01:42

or his podcast, we were just so thankful for you tuning in

David Anderson: 00:01:47

today. And whether you're a listener to me or not, I'm a

David Anderson: 00:01:52

wedding minister. And I reached out to Joe, for one specific

David Anderson: 00:01:59

area, it is the area of finances in engaged couples. We deal with

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a lot of engaged couples and our conversations with those couples

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usually are somewhere in the area of 9, 10, 12 months,

David Anderson: 00:02:13

sometimes longer. But it is always an interesting

David Anderson: 00:02:17

conversation when I bring up the area of finances to these

David Anderson: 00:02:23

couples who are preparing for marriage. And many times it's

David Anderson: 00:02:27

not the thing that they've thought about. They might have a

David Anderson: 00:02:30

budget for their wedding, they might have thought about what

David Anderson: 00:02:32

they're going to do with their finances after the wedding. But

David Anderson: 00:02:36

overall, it usually looks like a good topic that needs to be

David Anderson: 00:02:41

discussed with these folks. So Joe, that is why you are here

David Anderson: 00:02:45

today. So tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do,

David Anderson: 00:02:49

and all of that.

Joseph Okaly: 00:02:51

Sure, absolutely. So I've been an advisor now

Joseph Okaly: 00:02:54

going on 15 years. I interned at New Horizons where I am now in

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:00

college. And I've been here ever since. So this is this is what

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:04

I've been trained to do for a long time here. And basically,

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:07

you know why I think today's discussion is so fantastic, is

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:11

because what I found as I grew in my career, and I learned

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:14

these things to help our clients to help themselves with their

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:17

money and their finances, and their planning and all this

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:19

stuff that became second nature to me is that nobody else really

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:22

gets this information, especially people that are

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:24

younger. So you know, you go to school, you learn Shakespeare

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:27

and algebra, but then you you get a job and you have money to

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:31

manage and all this kind of stuff. And nobody really gave

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:34

you any training. So you know, I love working specifically with

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:38

younger people, because I know how much I can help them from an

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:41

early age get on the right path. And so when you get in the early

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:45

path from the right age, it just makes a life a lot more

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:48

enjoyable, a lot easier to manage. So, you know, I've been

Joseph Okaly: 00:03:52

married now this is a will be like 10 years, 10 years in, in

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July here with my wife Lauren, and we have two fantastic kids,

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:00

five year old Avery and two year old Noah. So I'm on the same

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:04

journey as a lot of people are getting ready to take here who

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might be listening to this. And so again, I'm happy to share

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:10

some information because you're absolutely right, David, the

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:13

financial part of it is something that is unfortunately

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:16

overlooked too many times.

David Anderson: 00:04:18

Right. Well, let's start start with we'll

David Anderson: 00:04:20

start with the good stuff. First. Start with your your

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marriage. He's been married 10 years. Do you remember where

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like how you propose your wife? You remember how that story

David Anderson: 00:04:30

went?

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:31

Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I are both really big

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:35

Disney people. And so I wound up actually meeting my wife

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:39

freshman year of college back in 2004. So I've known my wife for

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:44

quite a long time, even though we've been married for 10 years,

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:47

but this year, I'll also know her for half of my life. So it's

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:51

a it's a substantial year here and so we're big Disney people

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:55

and we took my wife convinced me to take a vacation to Disney

Joseph Okaly: 00:04:58

before we had kids. Which at the time I thought was just

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:01

craziness that didn't make any sense to me. But she, of course

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:05

is 100% right as she's been many times over these last 10 years.

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:08

And so we went down to Disney and I had my my sister came down

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:12

as well with her friend and I had her kind of smuggle the

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:15

engagement ring down. And then instead of doing in the park,

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:19

what I decided to do is at the character breakfast, breakfast,

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:22

so Pluto came out after breakfast with with an

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:26

engagement ring on a special platter that he opened up and

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:29

then I, you know, got down on one knee and proposed proposed

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:33

there. So it was a it was a little bit a little bit

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:36

different than your your typical, I would say Disney

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:39

Disney proposal. And, but it was a lot of fun.

David Anderson: 00:05:42

No, that's a great story. That's a very cool

David Anderson: 00:05:45

story. So did she know that was coming? You have an idea that

David Anderson: 00:05:49

was coming?

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:49

No. So actually, the whole breakfast I would I

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:52

couldn't eat because I was so nervous about just doing it. And

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:55

so she's, you know, berating me through breakfast of like, "Why

Joseph Okaly: 00:05:58

aren't you eating, you're gonna be hungry the whole day, like

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:01

you gotta". And I'm like, just hold on, hold on. It's common.

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:04

It's common. So.

David Anderson: 00:06:07

So you had no idea when Pluto was going to

David Anderson: 00:06:09

show up, he was just going to be random, or you kind of had an

David Anderson: 00:06:11

idea.

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:11

I planned it all out ahead of time. So I had

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:14

talked to the, the, the manager of the restaurant and, and all

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:17

that kind of stuff ahead of time. So we, you know, I chose

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:21

Pluto out of out of who was going to be there that day, and

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:23

so on. So yeah, it was a lot of planning a fair amount of

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:27

stress, but it ended in a memorable moment. So I think I

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:31

think I wanted to do it the same way again.

David Anderson: 00:06:34

Very cool. So that, um, that's a beautiful

David Anderson: 00:06:36

little fairy tale story. But taking you back a little bit.

David Anderson: 00:06:40

Did you? Did you remember in your engagement season talking

David Anderson: 00:06:46

about money? Like how do you remember that? Or was this

David Anderson: 00:06:49

something that sort of evolved later once you were married?

David Anderson: 00:06:52

Like, what what kind of money discussions did you guys have in

David Anderson: 00:06:56

your early relationship days?

Joseph Okaly: 00:06:59

Yeah, so I think when people first start out, and

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:01

they're just dating, obviously, everything is completely

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:04

separate, there's really no overlap at all. And then when

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:07

you get engaged, and you have to start planning a wedding and

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:11

money is part of planning a wedding, now you start kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:13

doing some of a crossover. And even for me, when we started

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:17

out, you know, I was also starting out with with my job

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:21

more or less still. So there wasn't, you know, there wasn't

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:24

as much detail, I guess, as, as it, you know, grew to later on,

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:29

but the important things kind of ahead of time were that you

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:31

start having those discussions. So, you know, like, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:35

when Lewis and Clark, they knew they both want to be explorers

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:37

and go across the country. But if one wanted to go to Texas and

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:40

one want to go up to you know, what would be Washington State,

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:43

those are two different things. So you're both you need to have

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:46

some idea goals wise of what direction that we're that you're

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:49

going in. And finances is a part of that. So like when Lauren and

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:53

I had discussions during engagements, or during our

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:56

engagement time, it was, you know, where do we want to live?

Joseph Okaly: 00:07:58

And, you know, do we want a family? And, you know, what kind

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:02

of house do you see yourself in and, you know, so you have to,

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:05

you have to have, in my opinion, some of those conversations

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:08

directionally in the engagement phase, so that you can start,

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:12

you know, getting a good idea of okay, are we both want to get

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:15

married, but we do we want to get married in the same way. And

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:18

you'll go on the adventure in the same exact direction, kind

Joseph Okaly: 00:08:21

of a deal.

David Anderson: 00:08:22

Right? And that is listen that that idea of

David Anderson: 00:08:25

goals, I think that's probably the most important part, because

David Anderson: 00:08:29

a lot of times when I when I have the discussion about

David Anderson: 00:08:33

finances, and I tell all of my couples upfront, I am not Joe

David Anderson: 00:08:37

Okaly. I am not a financial planner. They you know, I send

David Anderson: 00:08:41

them to, you know, go get a book on this or talk to somebody, I'm

David Anderson: 00:08:44

more interested, I guess in the emotional side of it. What did

David Anderson: 00:08:47

your parents do? Your family of origin? How did they handle

David Anderson: 00:08:50

money? Did they fight over money, all those? So? So that's

David Anderson: 00:08:55

where I sort of land with him. But what is interesting in what

David Anderson: 00:08:57

you just said, was that idea of goals. And oftentimes when I'm

David Anderson: 00:09:02

talking to couples about money, it's not really a goal

David Anderson: 00:09:06

conversation. It is a now conversation, like, we pay for

David Anderson: 00:09:11

the mortgage. And so right now, he puts in, she puts in, we pay

David Anderson: 00:09:15

for the car he puts in he put you know, it's the "How are you

David Anderson: 00:09:19

paying the bills today?" Talk me a little bit more about that

David Anderson: 00:09:23

idea of goals. What's the difference between today

David Anderson: 00:09:26

financial idea and a goal centered financial idea?

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:30

Yeah, so some of the some of those things overlap

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:33

to some degree, like what you were saying because, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:35

when you talk about, okay, who's paying the mortgage, or you

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:38

know, how much are they saving, like any goal that you have

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:41

usually requires some kind of financial aspect. So if it's a

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:43

couple that doesn't have a home yet, but that wants to buy one,

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:46

what their credit scores are, are kind of important for that.

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:49

How much extra cash flow they have right now is kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:52

important to that. If they want to, you know, go on vacations or

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:56

they want to live in a bigger house down the road. You know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:09:58

you need cash flow that supports some degree of savings still,

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:02

you know. So budgeting and bill payment, these are things that

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:05

kind of tie into those longer term goals, because you're

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:08

right, you know, it's like, what are you doing right now? But

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:10

also now the goal, say, Okay, this is what I want to do in the

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:13

future, and is what am I doing right? What I'm doing right now

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:16

will that be able to adapt to allow me to do some of those

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:19

things in the future. So, you know, we've come across, I mean

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:22

money, whether you're engaged, or whether you've been married

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:24

for 10 years, it can be one of the biggest drivers of

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:27

relationship stress. And so the earlier that you can try to

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:30

address it and talk about it. Money has been this like big

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:34

taboo thing in our society where it's like not proper to talk to

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:38

people about money. And that's the the way that you, you kind

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:41

of stay in the dark about you got to talk about it, you have

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:43

to ask questions, in my opinion, and get some of that clarity. So

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:47

I mean, we've heard of people engaged, where all of a sudden

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:49

they find out their partner, you know, has a bunch of credit card

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:52

debt, and you know, a terrible credit score, and they could see

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:55

like, hey, you know, this person may not be able to do the things

Joseph Okaly: 00:10:59

that I want to do with the person I marry in my life kind

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:02

of a deal. So, you know, it's really important to align those

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:06

goals and then start talking about finances. And in my

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:10

opinion, at least, to make those finances kind of as joint as

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:13

possible as you start progressing into, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:16

married life.

David Anderson: 00:11:17

Okay, so your it sounds like you're an advocate

David Anderson: 00:11:20

for joint accounts. I hear. I hear from both sides. I hear a

David Anderson: 00:11:24

lot of folks who they keep it very separate. And, and I always

David Anderson: 00:11:28

pressed them, I pressed them on this was like, okay, when are

David Anderson: 00:11:32

you like, the day after the wedding, a month after the

David Anderson: 00:11:35

wedding, a year after the wedding? When when do you guys

David Anderson: 00:11:39

plan on going joint? And many times, they're sort of like,

David Anderson: 00:11:44

well, I don't know if we are going to go joint. So talk to me

David Anderson: 00:11:47

about that. What's what is the importance of joint versus

David Anderson: 00:11:52

keeping things separate?

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:53

Sure. And so the, the first point I'll go over is

Joseph Okaly: 00:11:56

just account type in general. So you can have, you know, my

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:01

accounts vs your accounts, but make sure they're all joint

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:04

accounts. So they should all technically be joint bank

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:07

accounts. So like for myself, I use one bank, primarily, my wife

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:11

uses another bank, primarily, we look at everything jointly. But

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:15

you know, she looks at those as kind of, you know, the ones

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:17

accounts she would go to first. I have mine that I would go to

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:20

first kind of a deal. But all of the accounts have both of our

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:23

names on it. So if you don't have joint accounts, then God

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:27

forbid, let's say you're in the hospital and you can't, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:30

know, get money out of your account. You can't walk in and

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:33

say "Oh, I'm I'm their spouse, give me some of their money."

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:36

They will go by whoever's name is on that account. So even if

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:39

you do choose to be more separate with your finances, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:43

would highly, highly recommend that you make sure the

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:45

registrations on those accounts are joint so that your spouse

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:48

would get into the account in case of emergency. So I'd say

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:52

off the off the bat, that would be the first the first item when

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:55

you look at it from an account type standpoint. Going deeper

Joseph Okaly: 00:12:59

into that about how you're looking at your finances, when

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:02

you guys are, you know, starting on your journey to be you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:05

to have a life together, you're one family, and you know, having

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:08

one family, it's important to to look at things and goals jointly

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:12

because they are joint. So like when you get to retirement, if

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:15

like one of you saved enough and the other one didn't, you're not

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:17

going to be like alright, well, you know, I'm going to retire

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:20

now and good luck to you. It's like you retired together, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:24

send your school kids to school together. And you're what we've

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:27

seen happen at times is when you start when you're young, and

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:30

it's like okay, well, I'm handling the mortgage and the

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:33

utility bill and you're handling the groceries and this, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:36

know, the car loans, if one person has the, careers change,

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:40

maybe one person isn't able to, you know, pay the mortgage as

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:43

well. And now they start taking on some credit card debt,

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:46

because that's their, their situation, their side of things.

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:49

But at the end of the day, if one person has credit card debt,

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:52

everybody has credit card debt, that's why that's holding back

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:54

the family. Or you know, if one person has a work plan that

Joseph Okaly: 00:13:58

allows for matching, and it would be great to take advantage

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:02

of that kind of thing, but they don't have the cash flow to do

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:04

that because technically, oh, I'm supposed to do the mortgage,

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:07

you know, that kind of stuff. If you're not looking at it jointly

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:09

then you're not taking advantage of all the potential

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:11

opportunities. You don't see cumulatively as well where you

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:15

guys are going and you avoid some of those pitfalls like I

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:18

said, where if one person is going to you know take on credit

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:21

card debt or something like that if they wind up not being able

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:23

to manage their situation or you know, their half of the bill so

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:26

to speak. So in my mind you know, as joint as possible,

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:30

obviously, we don't push people you have to be joint or we're

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:33

not going to work with you kind of thing, but in our opinion,

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:36

you know, you should have you should be having everything as

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:40

as joint together and looking at it jointly together. It's it's,

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:43

you know, it's your joint situation kind of thing your

Joseph Okaly: 00:14:46

joint life together.

David Anderson: 00:14:47

Right. What's also to me when we have our we

David Anderson: 00:14:49

have our conversations, I mean, money is not a sexy topic. I

David Anderson: 00:14:53

mean, it's just not when we talk to couples, you know, how did

David Anderson: 00:14:57

you guys meet and you know those those beautiful stories tell me

David Anderson: 00:15:01

about your family. What do you like about each other? And it

David Anderson: 00:15:04

it's, it's great that you guys have things in common. You both

David Anderson: 00:15:11

have the same Marvel movie who superhero in common. Okay. Money

David Anderson: 00:15:17

is really, you know, we don't we don't fight, we don't have

David Anderson: 00:15:21

conflict, we have so much in common. We were just connected

David Anderson: 00:15:25

on all these levels and what I what I tell people like you're

David Anderson: 00:15:28

not married till there's money, okay until there's money

David Anderson: 00:15:33

involved. Money tells you that you're married. The model we use

David Anderson: 00:15:38

frequently is the idea of a business. If two businesses

David Anderson: 00:15:41

merge, they're not merged until there's money involved. And

David Anderson: 00:15:44

there's we can be associates, we can be whatever, but if you're

David Anderson: 00:15:50

partners, that means we are in the pot together. So when should

David Anderson: 00:15:57

you start this discussion? Okay, maybe first date might be too

David Anderson: 00:16:00

early, like, "Hey, you're cute. And what's your credit score?"

David Anderson: 00:16:03

When when should you start having some of those

David Anderson: 00:16:06

discussions?

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:07

Yeah. First date? It's cute. Yes, I would say you

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:10

know, it's just, when you when you start getting serious, in my

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:16

opinion, like, for me, like when I thought like, oh, I would like

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:19

to propose to my wife, and you know, marry her, I was doing

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:25

that, because I already knew, like, I knew that she wanted

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:27

kids and I wanted kids. And so some of that stuff. So a lot of

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:31

the again, going back to the goals piece of it like that can

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:34

really tie into to helping with the money part. So you don't

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:38

have to necessarily be like, Hey, what's your credit score,

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:41

you know, from day one. But if you know what things that you

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:44

guys are wanting to do, and not just like the Marvel movie

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:47

today, we don't fight today is kind of your saying, but like,

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:50

what do we want to do five years from now? 10 years from now?

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:53

What direction do we want to really be going into? You know

Joseph Okaly: 00:16:57

the money, it really ties into that a lot? So, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:00

certainly as you as you get into being engaged and whatnot, it's

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:05

kind of a good opportunity, because it's like, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:07

well, how much do you have in your bank account, Hon? How much

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:10

do I have in my bank account, because like, these are the

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:12

things that we need to be, you know, using to maybe help pay

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:15

for this wedding. So I think the engagement can be a good opening

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:19

of a door to have to have more of a sight directly into what

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:25

they have. But before I would even get engaged with someone

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:28

again, I want their you know, this have some idea longer term

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:31

on the on the goals, and that can kind of tell you something

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:33

about what direction you're heading in. I think another

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:37

thing you could talk about is, you know, stuff like, oh, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:40

know, did your parents help you out paying for college? Did you

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:43

do that on your own or like you there's things like that, that

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:46

you can bring up in conversation as well. So like, for myself,

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:48

personally, like my, my mom paid for, you know, part of my

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:52

schooling and I took on the other half of loans. For my

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:55

wife, she was fortunate enough where her parents took on that.

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:57

But those are kind of things where it's not like, Hey, what's

Joseph Okaly: 00:17:59

your credit score? Like what's your bank account number? It's

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:02

kind of like, how do you how did your family teach you to

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:05

approach money? Do they teach you just to take out a bunch of

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:07

loans? And who cares? Did they teach you like, you know, try to

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:10

minimize that thing? You know, why did you go to that school?

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:13

Did you go to it because you got the most financial aid for that

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:16

school? Did you do it just because you like the campus the

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:18

most like. You know there are things that money has touched

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:22

already in your life, that if you have discussions on like,

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:25

why you wound up where you are with some of those things, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:27

can start to piece together a little bit of what their

Joseph Okaly: 00:18:29

baseline personality might be when it comes to money.

David Anderson: 00:18:33

And then you also determine their values as

David Anderson: 00:18:34

well. I mean, there's, there's all you know, there's no,

David Anderson: 00:18:37

there's not really a good or bad, but you should make sure

David Anderson: 00:18:41

you're on the same page, what you lease a car versus buying a

David Anderson: 00:18:44

car. You buy a car every three years, or you drive it til it

David Anderson: 00:18:50

dies. Those are values, those are values behind that, again,

David Anderson: 00:18:53

there's not necessarily are good or bad. But you also want to

David Anderson: 00:18:56

make sure like, hey, if I am I'm driving this beater til it's

David Anderson: 00:19:00

300,000 miles, and you want a new car every three years.

David Anderson: 00:19:05

Again, that's not good or bad. I certainly have an opinion on it.

David Anderson: 00:19:08

But like, you want to make sure like, Hey, we're on this, we're

David Anderson: 00:19:11

on the same page. So...

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:14

That's a great example to with the car because

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:16

it could be something like, oh, you know, you did you buy or

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:19

lease your car? Or I leased it? Oh, you know, how did you come

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:21

up with how much you could afford for that? Like, I don't,

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:23

you know, how did you kind of come up with that kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:26

equation? Like how did you know? And now you get them talking

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:29

again? And you could hear like, Well, I I don't know I just I

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:32

just you know what saw it on the lot and I liked it. So you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:35

I bought it. And again now you're starting to establish a

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:38

little bit of a mentality because if that's how they

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:40

approach car buying, that's probably going to have you know

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:42

be how they approach some other things in life as well. So I

Joseph Okaly: 00:19:45

think that's a cool example that you could use as well.

David Anderson: 00:19:48

Right? Say, you know, how much do you save? Do

David Anderson: 00:19:52

you like to save? Did did you start working as a teenager?

David Anderson: 00:19:55

Would you do with money made you know? You can get around it What

David Anderson: 00:20:00

do you do when you start seeing red flags? I guess if you're

David Anderson: 00:20:03

dating, you just kind of break up. But hey, we're engaged, and

David Anderson: 00:20:05

I'm starting to see red flags. What? How do you handle that?

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:10

That might be a better question for you, because

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:15

that works a lot in the emotional realm. I mean, from a

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:18

dollars and cents standpoint, if you see a bunch of red flags, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:22

mean, money is like number one or two on the list of most

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:25

studies for reasons that you know, stress is in a

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:28

relationship. So if if money looks like it's gonna be kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:32

a bombshell, if you're, if you're approaching it without

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:36

emotion, it's probably something that could be a problematic

Joseph Okaly: 00:20:40

relationship, but I'll leave the rest of that answer to you.

David Anderson: 00:20:42

Well, no. Yeah, I probably set myself up for

David Anderson: 00:20:45

that. I mean, there's probably you mean, this thought, you

David Anderson: 00:20:50

know, people, it's hard to change people. Like, if you're a

David Anderson: 00:20:55

saver, you're a saver. If you're a spender, you're a spender.

David Anderson: 00:20:58

It's very hard to turn a spender into a saver you can, you got to

David Anderson: 00:21:02

sort of you got to really work with those folks. But I think

David Anderson: 00:21:07

that's, you know, so we do a tool called SYMBIS. It stands

David Anderson: 00:21:12

for Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. It's like an

David Anderson: 00:21:14

assessment that they ask us questions, and they get a

David Anderson: 00:21:17

report. There's a whole there's a whole thing on on money. And

David Anderson: 00:21:21

it's it's not a financial breakdown. It does ask you, you

David Anderson: 00:21:26

know, how much you know, are you bringing zero debt, some debt,

David Anderson: 00:21:30

significant amounts, it doesn't give $1 number. But it also, it

David Anderson: 00:21:34

will ask you, are you a saver or a spender? It will ask you if

David Anderson: 00:21:37

you if you make a budget, are you a budgeter? Yes, I live by

David Anderson: 00:21:41

it religiously. I started it, but I don't do it or budget,

David Anderson: 00:21:44

what does that mean? And they have these sort of choices. But

David Anderson: 00:21:47

the other things they're sort of asking to like, what is your

David Anderson: 00:21:50

what are your financial fears, and that's the stuff I'm

David Anderson: 00:21:53

interested in. You know, there is the I want to be recognized.

David Anderson: 00:21:58

I want to have influence. I want to have security. Those are

David Anderson: 00:22:03

fears, those are your emotional things, all all money issues

David Anderson: 00:22:07

have emotional issues, underneath and that you have to

David Anderson: 00:22:10

uncover. So those are the things that that I'm after. And if you

David Anderson: 00:22:14

start to see it, that's one of the things I have had some

David Anderson: 00:22:16

folks, they get to that page, and they just sort of kind of

David Anderson: 00:22:19

see it. And I really hope they haven't seen it for the first

David Anderson: 00:22:22

time sometimes they do. But you do have to sort of talk through

David Anderson: 00:22:27

like, this won't go away. It's not going it's not going to

David Anderson: 00:22:31

necessarily change. How do you introduce budgeting to a couple

David Anderson: 00:22:38

that's not really doing that? Like, like, hey, help me with

David Anderson: 00:22:41

this whole budgeting thing? Like, how do you how do you sort

David Anderson: 00:22:44

of start that conversation with them?

Joseph Okaly: 00:22:46

Yeah, I mean, when you're young, the most important

Joseph Okaly: 00:22:49

thing is just make sure that you're saving some part towards

Joseph Okaly: 00:22:52

yourself. Because when you start at an early age, so when I went

Joseph Okaly: 00:22:56

back to my high school to do a presentation to try to help kind

Joseph Okaly: 00:22:59

of establish this point for high school students. But in the

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:03

example, it was like a 22 year old versus a 23 year old and the

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:07

22 year old and the 23 year old both start to save $200 a month,

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:11

but the 22 year old, because they saved for one extra year at

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:15

retirement, you know, 40 years later, that extra $200 a month

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:19

for one year, came out to like an extra $200,000. So the power

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:25

of money over time is just it's incredible, because it just

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:29

keeps growing and building off of itself. In that example, one

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:32

person didn't save an extra $2,400, they saved an extra

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:35

$2,400, which grew for 40 years. So it's a really, really

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:38

powerful component. So when young couples first come out,

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:42

there's a lot of stuff that you want to spend money on. And I I

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:45

totally get that you want the house you want the new

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:47

furniture, car, whatever it might be. I would just the

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:52

biggest thing is, you know, don't spend more than you make

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:54

in general. And make sure that you pay yourself just a little

Joseph Okaly: 00:23:59

bit more like, if I'm going to save $200 a month, you know

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:02

what, let me try to push it to $300 a month. So really just try

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:06

to make sure that you pay yourself something and just push

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:09

that number a little bit. You don't have to, it doesn't have

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:12

to be like $1,000 a month or anything like that. But I

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:15

promise you, you know, those those little extra amounts that

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:17

you save now are really going to grow to you know, potentially

Joseph Okaly: 00:24:21

something very substantial down the road.

David Anderson: 00:24:23

Right. I think one of the things I run into

David Anderson: 00:24:27

more, and I've been doing weddings for close to 25 years.

David Anderson: 00:24:33

But I'm still I'm 48 So I'm not you know, I don't want to talk

David Anderson: 00:24:37

like the olden days. But one of the things that I have noticed I

David Anderson: 00:24:41

pastor a church and I've got some older couples who they've

David Anderson: 00:24:44

been married for 40, 50, 60 years. And I think the thing

David Anderson: 00:24:48

that has struck me the most is there is really no idea or no

David Anderson: 00:24:55

strong idea about starting off. Okay, and you'll hear these

David Anderson: 00:25:00

older couples who say yeah, when we started off, we had a small

David Anderson: 00:25:05

apartment, we had a we my aunt's ugly couch, and we had borrowed

David Anderson: 00:25:10

furniture and there was a there was a tradition or your family

David Anderson: 00:25:14

members gave you furniture and you eventually grew out of that,

David Anderson: 00:25:17

or eventually got your second home or whatever you went from

David Anderson: 00:25:21

renting to buying, things like that. The thing that is is very

David Anderson: 00:25:26

striking now, there is no starting off, it's, we're gonna

David Anderson: 00:25:30

get it all now. Like he's gonna get it all now. And it's

David Anderson: 00:25:33

whatever the credit limit sort of set you at, or whatever I can

David Anderson: 00:25:36

afford, as a payment, I, hey, we could afford that payment, we

David Anderson: 00:25:39

could we need new furniture, we could afford 100 and whatever

David Anderson: 00:25:43

dollars for payment, that kind of thing. How do you sort of

David Anderson: 00:25:45

speak to that kind of stuff?

Joseph Okaly: 00:25:48

Well, first off, I mean, I think that's a great

Joseph Okaly: 00:25:50

point overall. And the the first part of that, I would say is

Joseph Okaly: 00:25:53

when you're going to buy a house, that's usually the thing

Joseph Okaly: 00:25:55

that people get stuck in the most. And I, to this point, 15

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:00

years in, I don't think I've ever seen an approved mortgage

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:04

limit that I would actually say somebody could afford. You might

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:08

be able to afford that if that's the only thing that you do, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:10

don't go on vacations, you don't really have a you know, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:13

don't save toward yourself. If you want to just work so that

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:17

you can pay the mortgage, that's kind of how the the upper limit

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:21

of what they say, "hey, we'll give you a loan for" tends to

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:24

come out from what I've seen. So the in that in that realm, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:28

would definitely say, no matter what they say, they'll give you

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:31

a loan for, it's probably more than you can afford, if you

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:35

really want to be able to like save money towards yourself and

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:38

do other things to grow into a good financial situation. So

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:41

definitely take kind of a cut off the top of that. And you

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:45

know, set a goal to you know, ideally, at a minimum, you want

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:49

to save, you know, let's say 10% of your income towards yourself.

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:52

So even if it's not from day one, but let's say you make

Joseph Okaly: 00:26:55

$100,000, that's roughly $10,000 per year. That should be the

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:00

goal of what you should kind of get to as a minimum. So maybe

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:03

you're one it doesn't happen, because you're buying new

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:05

furniture, you know, your two didn't happen, because you had

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:08

to save up money for the house. But that should be kind of the

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:11

target, like, I want to save at least something towards myself

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:14

from day one, but I want to work up to maybe say 10% of what I'm

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:18

making, that'll get you into a really good spot more likely

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:21

than not, especially when you have that mentality, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:24

when you're young. And, you know, to your point, David with

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:27

with your examples, all of those people that were taking, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:30

know, loan furniture and a little apartment and things like

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:33

that, they were probably doing that because they couldn't spend

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:36

more than they were making. They would not do it, credit cards

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:40

probably weren't available, right, you know, back then

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:42

potentially do what you can do now. And that's really the the

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:45

first part of it, that they they did not spend more than they

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:47

make. And then they made sure that they start to put some

Joseph Okaly: 00:27:50

money away towards themselves when they could.

David Anderson: 00:27:51

That's the key, that is the key "spend less than

David Anderson: 00:27:55

you make". I mean, it sounds so basic. And it is like, you know,

David Anderson: 00:28:00

I don't know how to you just stamp it on the forehead

David Anderson: 00:28:04

sometimes. So one of the things that happens a lot in engaged

David Anderson: 00:28:04

I'm in North Jersey, so yeah, big weddings are kind of a big

David Anderson: 00:28:08

couples, or sometimes leading up to a wedding, or wedding day, or

David Anderson: 00:28:13

the days after. You could find yourself from family or friends,

David Anderson: 00:28:18

you could find yourself with a windfall. I mean, you can find

David Anderson: 00:28:23

yourself now there's usually a lot of money that has been put

David Anderson: 00:28:27

into the wedding. Right, I have seen some tremendous weddings.

David Anderson: 00:28:32

Listen, it's the fun of my weekend to go to this wonderful

David Anderson: 00:28:36

event. I stand back sometimes that I look at like, wow, they

David Anderson: 00:28:41

spent 45, 30, 50, 75,000 on this event. And that kind of makes my

David Anderson: 00:28:45

head shake a little bit.

David Anderson: 00:28:52

thing.

David Anderson: 00:28:53

So I love to go and I will certainly eat your your steak

David Anderson: 00:28:57

and kebabs there. I mean, it's it's great. I'll enjoy it. But

David Anderson: 00:29:02

coming out of that you could end up with 5, 10, 15, $20,000 maybe

David Anderson: 00:29:08

a grandparent gives you something more. How do I

David Anderson: 00:29:11

approach that? Like we're just newly married and I'm flushed

David Anderson: 00:29:14

with cash I've just gotten pockets full of of money, what

David Anderson: 00:29:18

what is your approach to that?

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:20

So my biggest piece of advice when it comes to

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:23

that would be to be intentional with it. So a lot of people

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:27

might take that money and just throw it in their bank account.

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:30

And all of a sudden, you know, they look at it six months

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:32

later, and somehow it's you know, it's disappeared. They're

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:34

not quite sure where, where it may have gone to but it's it's

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:38

really not there anymore. And this is the same approach that

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:41

we use for our clients that might get a bonus or tax refund

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:45

is to plan ahead of time and say, Hey, you're going to get

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:47

$10,000 back or you're going to get this $10,000 bonus. What do

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:52

you want to do with it? Let's plan ahead of time. And now you

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:55

can make sure that it does what you actually want it to do. It

Joseph Okaly: 00:29:58

doesn't all have to be saved. I mean ideally, part of it would

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:01

be saved. But at least when you're intentional with it, then

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:04

you're going to have more chance of it accomplishing the things

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:07

that you'd like it to accomplish. Because nobody likes

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:10

when when you want to ask them like, Oh, what is your bonus? Oh

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:13

$10,000? Okay, where did that go last year? I, not quite I know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:18

I put it into my account, but then that it's like, gets

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:21

dripped and dragged away. So definitely very intentional with

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:25

whatever you get there. It's using part of it towards a house

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:28

or part of it towards repayment of debt or part of it to save

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:32

and, you know, get that get yourselves on the right track,

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:34

you know, definitely be intentional with the money in

Joseph Okaly: 00:30:36

one way or another.

David Anderson: 00:30:38

Right. How often do you run into a couple? And

David Anderson: 00:30:43

this is sort of this, I could ask myself the same question as

David Anderson: 00:30:47

well. As we've said, a couple of times, we sort of alluded to

David Anderson: 00:30:52

money can cause stress, money can cause conflict. I, there was

David Anderson: 00:30:58

a paper years ago, that was fascinating. They were basically

David Anderson: 00:31:03

saying that all couples kind of have rules for fighting, you

David Anderson: 00:31:09

know, whether they're written or unwritten, we just kind of

David Anderson: 00:31:11

assumed, okay, you know, if we can't finish this in 15 minutes,

David Anderson: 00:31:15

we're gonna go cool off, or don't yell at me, or don't cuss

David Anderson: 00:31:17

at me, or, you know, once you throw a pot of my head, then

David Anderson: 00:31:20

we're done or whatever. What this paper was saying, what the

David Anderson: 00:31:24

study was suggesting was, if you have rules for fighting, okay,

David Anderson: 00:31:30

don't call my mom names or whatever, you have rules for

David Anderson: 00:31:32

fighting, most couples will keep them unless it's a money fight.

David Anderson: 00:31:40

If I am going to break our written or unwritten

David Anderson: 00:31:44

relationship rules, I will break it for money. I'm not going to

David Anderson: 00:31:51

break it because your parents stepped over our holiday plans

David Anderson: 00:31:54

or somebody came home late or whatever. But I will break it

David Anderson: 00:31:58

for money. And not only will I break it, potentially, I'll go

David Anderson: 00:32:02

for the jugular. Like I will throw all kinds of relational

David Anderson: 00:32:06

equity out the window over the money fight. And so I guess the

David Anderson: 00:32:12

question for you is how often have you run into situations

David Anderson: 00:32:16

like the money thing has gotten to a point where it's causing

David Anderson: 00:32:19

conflict? Like, and obviously I would say, you're probably gonna

David Anderson: 00:32:23

say, well, first call me, you know, but help me with that. You

David Anderson: 00:32:28

walked into a room, you're trying to sort of advise in in,

David Anderson: 00:32:32

in resource you to see this as that this is a this is a tense

David Anderson: 00:32:36

situation, and it seems to be resolved, revolving around

David Anderson: 00:32:41

money? How do you sort of handle some of that?

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:43

Well, first of all, that's such an interesting

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:45

study, because it just goes to show the emotional power that

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:49

money has, I mean, if you would go and you know, beyond the

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:52

relationship fighting rules, like you put it, over money, it

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:55

just shows what a powerful motivator money can be. How much

Joseph Okaly: 00:32:59

fear and anxiety can be held within because I mean, money

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:02

translates to security. What you know, am I gonna be able to do

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:05

the things that I need to do in my life, to survive in the way

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:08

that I want to survive? You know, money can motivate people

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:11

and push people past what would be their normal, normal, normal

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:15

way of reacting. So that I mean, that study from, from that first

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:18

initial part is just really, really interesting. But for me,

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:22

we deal with some of this stuff, not when it's about to explode

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:25

probably, but as an advisor, and I'm 100% biased, because I am an

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:30

advisor. So I will readily admit that, but I think that people

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:34

should see an advisor as early as possible. There's this notion

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:37

like, I don't need to see somebody until I'm 40, or 50, or

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:40

60, or whatever it may be. And at that point, there's much less

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:44

time for somebody to help you. So when I meet with a younger

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:47

couple, while I why I love meeting with them is because we

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:50

can get all of this stuff out in the open in a safe way. So if

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:54

you know Bob things this and Jane thinks this about money,

Joseph Okaly: 00:33:58

they can voice their concerns, and they could say what they

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:01

feel out loud. And now they have somebody who's a professional

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:04

that can help navigate through this. So like, yeah, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:07

understand that you, you know, you feel like he doesn't have

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:10

enough life insurance, you feel like you know, he's not taking,

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:13

saving seriously enough, and then I could take that concern.

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:17

And I could show it to them visually in a way that they can

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:19

both digest it, and now make a joint decision, like going

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:23

forward from it. And you'd be shocked how many times this

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:26

stuff is below the surface and the other spouse doesn't even

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:30

know. Like, when we the first thing we do is we always talk

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:32

about goals when it comes to meeting with a new client. And

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:37

when one person says like, oh, yeah, I'm definitely gonna

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:40

retire early. And then you see the spouse look at them, like

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:42

what do you mean, retire early? How am I gonna get my second

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:45

house if you retire early? Right? It's like all this stuff

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:47

that's below the service that they're assuming their spouse

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:50

knew that they didn't know at all. So you know, if you're, if

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:53

you have an advisor, I just always recommend having that

Joseph Okaly: 00:34:57

person to go talk to and that just helps get all this stuff

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:00

out on the table. Because even when I have to give people bad

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:03

news, like, nobody wants to come in and have me tell them, like

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:06

you're not on the path that you want to be on, but they leave

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:09

still relieved, because knowing I'm on a bad path, and knowing

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:12

the options to get me on a good path is much more comfortable

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:16

than having no idea if I'm on a bad path, but kind of thinking

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:20

I'm like be. So you know, that advisor, again, having that

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:23

professional just like they're going to you to help them with

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:25

the engagement process and gain clarity on that as they head

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:28

into their life together, having that separate individual that

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:31

professional that can help navigate that for them from a

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:34

financial standpoint. I've just seen time and time again, is so

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:38

helpful to people.

David Anderson: 00:35:39

Right. I like the word advisor. And and I have

David Anderson: 00:35:43

tried. When you say the word counseling to anybody, it just

David Anderson: 00:35:48

scares them. Financial Counseling, marriage counseling,

David Anderson: 00:35:51

even premarital counseling, they think I'm gonna, you know,

David Anderson: 00:35:54

they're gonna come in here and you can lay on the couch and

David Anderson: 00:35:57

tell me about your mom or no,

Joseph Okaly: 00:35:58

like, you're almost doing something wrong.

David Anderson: 00:36:00

Yeah, yeah, well, he's gonna, he's gonna

David Anderson: 00:36:02

find out our secret like, No, I mean, the that advisor piece,

David Anderson: 00:36:06

like you should have an advisor, you should have a financial

David Anderson: 00:36:10

coach. I, I went to a lot of school, and I learned a lot of

David Anderson: 00:36:14

things. And none of them were finances, I took one personal

David Anderson: 00:36:17

money management class to get my math credit out of the way. I

David Anderson: 00:36:21

know. Now, if you want me to translate Hebrew, or Greek or

David Anderson: 00:36:25

Aramaic to you, I'll be more than happy to do that. But I

David Anderson: 00:36:29

already know like, I that's not in my wheelhouse. And so having

David Anderson: 00:36:33

that coach having that advisor is very important. And it's not

David Anderson: 00:36:36

a bad thing. I mean. I I tell couples all the time that the

David Anderson: 00:36:40

aunt, you know, when couples get into conflict, they think the

David Anderson: 00:36:44

answer is either in your head or it's in my head. And you have to

David Anderson: 00:36:48

allow, whether it's emotions, whether it's conflict,

David Anderson: 00:36:51

communication, whatever, or finances No, you have to make

David Anderson: 00:36:55

the allowance. No, there could be an answer. And it could be in

David Anderson: 00:36:59

someone else's head. And you have to go get that that's why

David Anderson: 00:37:03

those resources are there. What are some of the famous or not

David Anderson: 00:37:07

your famous? Your favorite resources? Like where would you

David Anderson: 00:37:10

point some folks, if you if they aren't necessarily going to come

David Anderson: 00:37:14

to New Jersey this weekend? Where would where would some

David Anderson: 00:37:18

folks who are listening across the country around the world?

David Anderson: 00:37:22

Where would they would you want to point them to maybe do some

David Anderson: 00:37:26

of this if they're just sort of dipping their toe in before they

David Anderson: 00:37:30

come into somebody's office?

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:32

Sure, sure. So I mean, that I like that line that

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:36

that you just use, though, as well. You know, it might not be

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:39

in my head or your head, like don't assume that either one of

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:42

us has the answer. And I mean, that goes back to just you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:46

the fact that nobody's, you can't learn everything in

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:48

school. Nobody can. The fact that you had one personal

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:51

finance classes more than most people have. So you're actually

Joseph Okaly: 00:37:54

ahead of the game which is sad.

David Anderson: 00:37:57

But it's changed? Listen, what I learned.

David Anderson: 00:38:00

I mean, I was in college in 1995. None of that applies

David Anderson: 00:38:04

anymore. I learned how, you know, when I talk to people

David Anderson: 00:38:07

about balancing a checkbook, and the whole ledger thing. I mean,

David Anderson: 00:38:10

they just look at me like weirdos like, No, you still have

David Anderson: 00:38:13

to do some of that like to balance your stuff at the end of

David Anderson: 00:38:15

the month. Oh my gosh, no one does. But go ahead. Finish what

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:18

Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's just that

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:18

you're saying?

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:19

there are people out there and like sometimes we're okay with

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:21

taking advice from other people. You know, if it's a plumber, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:27

know I can't, you know, unclog pipes. So, you know, if it's a

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:31

plumber, that's fine, we're ready to admit like, yeah, I

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:34

don't know that. And I'm okay with using somebody that does

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:37

know that. But for certain things when it comes like

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:39

emotions, or finances or money, like we don't seem to be able to

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:43

jump mentally that to that conclusion as readily. So

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:47

finances is that kind of that that taboo kind of thing. So

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:50

when it comes to the resources, I don't know that there's a ton

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:54

of resources out there for young people in particular, which is

Joseph Okaly: 00:38:57

why I started my podcast because I think it's kind of

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:00

embarrassing as a country that we don't educate our youth as

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:04

much as they need to be able to go out there once they get jobs

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:08

and to do all that. So my podcast I hope is a resource

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:11

that people can use for sure. There's some very classic books

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:14

like you know, The Millionaire Next Door, which is a really

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:17

cool thing about just you know, the the wealthiest people in

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:20

your neighborhood are probably not the ones that are driving

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:22

the biggest newest shiniest car because they're spending money

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:25

to get that to make to have a large value a large net worth

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:29

you have to not spend money and save it and invest it and a car

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:32

is not an investment so The Millionaire Next Door I think is

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:36

a good one to just also throw in there to to encourage people to

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:40

look at the other side of the spectrum that it's not you know

Joseph Okaly: 00:39:43

what your worth is not what you show. It's what you have.

David Anderson: 00:39:47

Oh yeah. No the best the thing the thing I love

David Anderson: 00:39:50

to see is a nice, not necessarily huge house but a

David Anderson: 00:39:53

nice house, the beat up car out front, and I look at that. That

David Anderson: 00:39:58

is a smart couple. Somebody is doing something smart. Alright

David Anderson: 00:40:03

so the easiest way for people to find you your website is

David Anderson: 00:40:08

EnjoyMore30s.com And I'll put I'll put a link to that on on my

David Anderson: 00:40:14

side in our show notes. But what is the easiest way for people to

David Anderson: 00:40:18

connect with you if they want to give you a call or connect with

David Anderson: 00:40:22

you? When once they hear this what's the easiest way for

David Anderson: 00:40:25

people to find you?

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:26

Yeah, it's pretty easy. You can like you said you

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:28

can go into the website EnjoyMore30s EnjoyMore30s.com My

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:33

financial firm's website is nhwmllc.com. New Horizons Wealth

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:39

Management LLC .com. I'm on LinkedIn, you know, Instagram,

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:43

anywhere that you want to reach out, you could definitely find

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:47

me. So yeah, anytime anybody has any questions on anything,

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:53

please don't hesitate to reach out and give me a shout. I'm not

Joseph Okaly: 00:40:58

doing all of this for any other reason than to just get

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:01

information out there to people that should be having this

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:04

information already. So please don't hesitate to ask if you

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:07

have a question.

David Anderson: 00:41:08

Absolutely. And obviously, my website is

David Anderson: 00:41:10

WeddingChaplain.com. You're more than welcome to reach out to me

David Anderson: 00:41:15

there. Well, Joe, this has been fabulous. Any final thoughts?

David Anderson: 00:41:19

Anything that you'd like to close this out with?

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:22

Yeah, let me let me one thing we didn't touch on

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:24

that I was hoping to mention to everybody today as well is one

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:27

of the biggest things that I recommend young families do that

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:30

do not do. And one of the biggest mistakes that they make

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:32

is not having enough protection for themselves. So you know, you

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:37

get married, you start having kids, you have a house, and now

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:40

you have something that's worth protecting. And as a young

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:44

person, your biggest asset is not what's in your bank account,

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:47

it's not your 401(k), it's your future earnings potential. So if

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:52

you may make, you know, if you make $100,000 a year, you're on

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:56

pace to make $3-$4 million worth of income over the course of

Joseph Okaly: 00:41:58

your career, if not more, that's your biggest asset. So I know

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:02

you know disability, not a fun thing to think about. I don't

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:05

like thinking about becoming disabled or dying or anything

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:08

like that. But those are the insurances that make sure this

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:11

house that you're building does not come crashing down. If God

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:14

forbid, were to, you know, something were to happen to you.

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:16

And when you're young and healthy, these insurances are

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:20

very cost effective. It you know, it's not something that's

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:26

going to put a big hole in your pocket to make sure that your

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:30

family is protected. I have an episode called Survivors Don't

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:34

Complain About Too Much Life Insurance, like no one's going

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:37

to be like, Oh, I wish that I got a little bit less from from

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:40

my husband when when he had when he passed away. So just make

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:43

sure that this life that you're building, there's so much great

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:46

positive stuff, make sure you protect it, because that's the

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:49

biggest mistake that we see people make. And you know, God

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:52

forbid, you have a little child or something like that out there

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:54

and you pass away. You don't want your you know, your spouse

Joseph Okaly: 00:42:58

and your child to be put into a terrible situation. So something

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:01

very easy that a lot of people overlook. Outside of that to

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:05

close on a more happy positive note, wherever you are right now

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:09

you're starting off in your life, just forgive yourself for

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:12

anything you may not know, you're not uncommon, you know,

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:15

most people were not taught anything. So what you can do

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:19

today, wherever you may be, is take that step forward. Make

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:22

sure that you don't live beyond your means and make sure you pay

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:24

yourself first, and you're gonna put yourself and you know, very,

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:27

very lovely a great position for you and your family going

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:30

forward.

David Anderson: 00:43:31

Very good. Very good. Well, Joe Okaly, this has

David Anderson: 00:43:35

been a wonderful conversation again, we'll put all the links

David Anderson: 00:43:39

in both of our respective podcast show notes, so you'll be

David Anderson: 00:43:44

able to connect with either of us after this episode. Joe,

David Anderson: 00:43:48

thank you so much for being with us today. It was a pleasure.

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:52

Thank you very much as well David, this was a

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:54

really cool thing to talk about. And I hope a lot of people out

Joseph Okaly: 00:43:57

there get a lot of value from it.

David Anderson: 00:43:58

Awesome, man. Thank you.

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